Stand Up Scottsdale, which was on Season 3 of Bar Rescue, recently had a news story done about them and their experience on Bar Rescue. During the show, Jon Taffer decided to make the Green Room of the bar bigger and tried to set the owner up with the Laugh Factory franchise. After Bar Rescue left, owner Howard Hughes decided to keep the name of the bar/club as Stand Up Scottsdale.In the recent news story, Howard reflects on his experience with Bar Rescue and the changes needed after the show left. The story also reflects another case of Bar Rescue not checking the local code before doing updates.
Here are the highlights of the news story:
- The exterior paint Bar Rescue chose and the outdoor sign they put up were not in compliance with Scottsdale policy. However Bar Rescue came back this month to repaint the club and remove paint on windows according to their Facebook Page (Link). They have also replaced the sign.
- The bigger green room took away 60 seats in the club, meaning room for 60 less paying customers. Howard added those 60 seats back spending $3,000 of his own money.
- Howard said he didn't like how he was portrayed and things from one day were dubbed into other days on the show to make it more interesting.
- Despite the hiccups from the show, the publicity from the show has helped the business.
Bar owners should know that there will be manufactured drama to make the show more interesting, but should be willing to deal with it for the makeover and publicity. It seems like Howard is fine with this, and Stand Up Scottsdale seems to be one of the best reviewed bars that has been on Bar Rescue. I think it is interesting that Bar Rescue actually came back to fix their mistakes and keeps in contact with the bar owners.
UPDATE - Here is another post with the Back to the Bar Update.
UPDATE - Stand Up Scottsdale closed in April 2017 - More information on the closure.
One would think the producers would be all over getting the right permits and meeting building codes.
ReplyDeleteHave there been any documented building code violations? The ones I've seen relate to cosmetics - signs, exterior colors, and the like.
ReplyDeleteMost towns & cities (especially one like Scottsdale, AZ), include such things as signs in their building codes. They regulate the size, brightness and location of the sign(s).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/codes/signs
Right, but again we're talking about cosmetic issues. Have there been any documented building code violations relating to the physical structure?
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like Jon Taffer's concept was for the club to make itself attractive to top comedic talent, something that is more likely with a decent green room and an association with the Laugh Factory brand, while the owners decided it would be more profitable to eschew licensing fees in favor of less expensive talent and maximizing the number of seats available for guests, no matter how far removed from the stage.
ReplyDeleteaaron, you're making assumptions from a perception that is false. You definitely are in line iwth the perception the show wanted. The club couldn't and can't be an "A" club. We don't have the physical size to hold the number of seats it takes to pay the biggest comedians. The laugh factory things was for tv; it wasn't viable. They had the opportunity to help make this club an even better "B" club, but they sold the viewers a tale that had no bearing in reality/the biz of comedy. No seats in this club are far away from the stage; none. I'm certain the show does a lot fo good things for many of these clubs; that was not the case here. Not spilled milk, not hate, not embarrassment...just the reality. If you ever get to scottsdale, come by; I'd be happy to show you everything you percieve from the show. I guarantee youll leave exactly how every other show fan has: with their perception of the show shot. HH.
ReplyDeleteHoward, as a local from Mesa, I must admit, I like the Laugh Factory, Scottsdale. However and with that being said, Howard, let me tell you, you talk too much, you never shut up. Rule #1 in any business, THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT. Rule #2, IF YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF THE CUSTOMER, SOMEOME ELSE WILL. Live by those rules and learn to listen instead of running your mouth all of the time and you'll do just fine.
ReplyDeleteHoward, while I appreciate that no small amount of the drama on "reality" TV shows is contrived, my perception comes from statements you made on the air, as well as statements posted under your company's facebook account, explaining that Bar Rescue shot two endings in case you could not come to an agreement with the Laugh Factory, and that negotiations failed because your club could not make the numbers work. I agree that, if the negotiations failed right around the time the filming stopped, it would have been appropriate to use the other ending.
ReplyDeleteSince you're following this, I have to ask: have you fixed up your bathrooms yet? Do you think there would be a following for a "restroom rescue" show, or would that involve... too much realty?
So, what have we learned? He was a whiner then and he's a whiner now. Sure, throw away a fabulous opportunity to make more money (being a Laugh Factory destination) and you're worried about 60 seats? Fill the other hundred first, why don't you? Gees...these whining owners left behind with a totally new start but just can't cry enough that they actually have to work now...right? Get codes clearances, who me? Whine...cry...whine...what difference did it make if the put different scenes into other days? You cried on one and whined on the other and they mixed them all together? Poor you...all that publicity...all that revenue-produced...all that hard work, done for YOU. Whoever watched THIS particular episode and expected differently were just dreaming anyway.
ReplyDeleteJoseph, since your local, why don't you stop by? I'll give you a personal tour , then when you feel like running your mouth on the web, you'll have personal experience to back it up.
ReplyDeleteWe take amazing care of the customers; which is why they come back; which why we have sick yelp reviews, as well as, any other review site.
You watched a highly produced tv show; the perception of me not caring was their doing (did you happen to wonder why there are so many cuts in our episode?) Let me ask you this: did your voice of reason question even a little bit how the "hecklers" went from being inside the club to outside the club? How did that happen? Was it magic?
I did that; I talked to them two times (which is our policy), then me and my door guy went over, helped them out of their seats and walked them out of the parking lot--the whole time them yelling at us. You watched a produced show which told a story they could cut and paste film into.
Regarding the laugh factory, anyone who knows anything about comedy knew the Laugh Factory brand was not an option and would have been the kiss of death. It was just for show.
I suggest you let reason be your guide when you're watching tv.
I'll have a beer waiting for you if you want to get a first person perspective...its makes running your mouth much more effective. I doubt you'll do it, but I'll be hear waiting to have a reasonable time with you.
Let me know when I can expect you.
HH.
Aaron, its not about this club or that club; the LF thing was for tv. Everyone knew before it was even put out there, that it wouldn't work. (the LF and the BR, before us).
ReplyDeleteThere was no misunderstanding. They knew well before view time, that we were Stand-up, Scottsdale...it just didn't fit the story: Howard's a failed comedian, who doesn't care about the guest, the club, etc...look, he even f'd up the LF deal.
It's all ridiculous and substantiated by 5 years of me running this show which turned into this club. I know you want to believe what you saw on the show; it just wasn't real. as a matter of fact, reply with something specific from the show, and I'll give you the reality...no matter how it makes me look.
"too much reality?" ...you trying to be snide speaks volumes. I'm not trying to hide anything here. I joined the conversation to give you all first hand feedback. There are lots of things I don't do well that i'm happy to talk about, but running a comedy club, booking comedians, treating customers well, and giving a great comedy experience aren't any of them...that was tv.
Here's your answer: For the last week, me and a contractor buddy have been knee deep in these bathrooms; they're looking great! thanks for asking, even if you couldn't do without being dopey. We'll have pictures on FB shortly; as a matter of fact, there's a couple up now of the progress. Here's another bit of insight: when BR shows up, they ask for a wishlist. The bathrooms were on it; they didn't touch 'em....they didn't do anyting on the wishlist. Things that we really needed; they just made a tv show...they didn't help the club (except for the wall between the bar and kitchen--which we're moving back a bit so we can have enough room to put back in the grill they took out). It's tv, boys. Same offer to you aaron, if you get in town, stop by. You'll be surprised. I'll ahve the beer waiting.
HH.
Stop in, whoever you are.
ReplyDeleteLet's have a good cry together...and a beer.
What part of this doesn't resonate with you?
The work they did, we have to redo; it was garbage.
Why is it so difficult to believe a person, an actual business owner, rather than a tv show and a host?
I'm down for substantive conversations aobut the show but if you just want sit in your dope chair thinking just cause you something on tv makes it real, enjoy that.
Why is me giving you the actual account more whining?
It wouldn't make more money being a Laugh Factory; waht don't you get about that? How about this, how about you explain to me why it would?
Give me your thoughts on the comedians you'd fill it with if it were LF? How much would tickets be? Would you have food? How much would you pay them? You sound like you have some real understanding of things beyond tv, perhaps you can teach me something.
HH.
I don't know of any but that would be far beyond their budget; its a relatively small budget for the majority of the episode (25k, as told by a prod asst). That would seem to reason given the extent of things done to my club.
ReplyDeleteUPDATE: Bar Rescue has ultimately stepped up and fixed the things that were done without compliance (painting/signage), as well as, they are sending a check to replace the 60 chairs that were removed along with money to replace the grill and microwaves that were removed and never made it to the storage unit. The permit for the sign was submitted in the final hour to escape further fines and should be up in the next couple of weeks (they even used our new logo).
ReplyDeleteOn the business side, we've got a new patio coming in, upgraded bathroom in the process as I type this, and continue to enjoy the same great response to our comedy show as before bar rescue.
We love meeting Bar Rescue fans that come in. It's always an interesting first meeting. They see me, only know me from the show, then we go through building a new relationship. All but one so far has left with a new perception of both the club and the show (maybe a couple more with the same perception of me ;-)
Either way, it was an interesting experience; glad it's ending with everyone stepping up. If you're ever in the area, hit me up and i'll have tickets waiting along with a beer. Even if you just can't beleive it because you saw me "say it on tv". If you have any specific instances you'd like to ask about, I'd be more than happy to answer them, whether the actual truth serves me or not. Semper Fi.
HH.
As I said, I can only go by what you have stated. You said one thing on TV, one thing via your bar's Facebook account, and another thing here.
ReplyDeleteSnide? Hardly. I was joking. If it rubbed you the wrong way, comedy, as you know, can sometimes make you angry or sad. (That was another joke, and I assume you get the reference to your hamming it up on the Bar Rescue episode.)
If improvements to your stage, kitchen and sound system weren't on your wish list, I have little choice but to conclude that you had odd priorities. Help me out here - what was on your wish list?
right on; i did take it wrong...my apologies.
ReplyDeleteI'm stoked you brought up the stage, kitchen and sound system. I hope you have an open mind, you seem to so far, but this may test it.
The stage: I do like the back wall (the parti immediately behind the comedian. They matched it to the walls that I had installed previously (the wings of the stage)...if they were going to take out the green room, I'm glad they matched what I already had.
BTW, before and after, the stage for its situation and feel is considered an highly favorable stage experience by the comedians; the room really is a great room
The Sound System: it was a complete and total farce for the tv. They didn't do anything to it in the main room and made it far worse in the side room. Here's how: we had a jbl 5 speaker system hanging from the ceiling in the side room; it was great. Well, they had a sponsor who was giving the two speakers you saw on tv. They took down our great system and put these two speakers on the stage blowing into the faces of the audience. The rooms sounds horrible now, but we're hanging the speakers they gave and bringing our two our jbl's and putting all back in the ceiling. Similarly, they f'd up the lighting tresses by splitting the power boxes; now our main room lights blow the main fuse if they're turned up too high....I have an electrician out this week who is going to install a new control in the truss so it can again handle the power of the lights.
THe Kitchen: the wish list was fixing the hood, so we could use the full capacity of it. instead, they put up the wall (which is great), gave us two fyers (we had one), and menu more appropriate for a kids party, not a comedy club in a city where the median income is 72k. it was foolish. Fortunately, we finally were able to get the hood fixed (it was simple and embarrassing on eveyrone that no one figured it out: the motor connector was reversed...dopey). It would have been amazing had they figured that out and increased the production of what we could put. What they did was just ridiculous and not suited to the business, its clientele, or the bottom line (although, I can't stress enough, the wall is great).
Trust me, and it's obvisous you still want to hold on to it, the perception fo the club, me, the guests, etc, was all for show. It's not substantiated anywhere in our history. its dramatic tv, but not real. even the moments that I'm "angry" or crying dont pertain (except for when he brought up my ex wife) to what was actually happening. Its a purposefully stressful week, more than I experienced in USMC bootcamp (I suppose because I didn't really have anything on the line in boot camp)...it's a mind-f@#$, but in the end, hopefully, its all worth it...thanks for the reasonable communication...hope you can make it in some day. HH.
btw...what discrepencies are you refering to in the beginning of your response? I can't imagine i've ever said anyting different, but I'm open to finding out.
As a fan of Bar Rescue and someone who will be in the Scottsdale area this weekend I will definitely be stopping bye at the very least to meet Howard and those legendary glasses!
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to it, Dan!
ReplyDeleteLet me know which showtime you want to come to and I'll have a two tix waiting.
HH.
I would love to have a tour of your place Im from Calgary Alberta Canada and go to Scottsdale regularly I have see your place from driving down Scottsdale road But never been to a show have been a a couple shows at Stand Up Live though
ReplyDeleteMr. Hughes.....What brand are your glasses?
ReplyDeletethis can't end well..jajaja
ReplyDeletethey're dolce & gabbana sun glasses with prescription lenses.
Great, send me an email when you want to come in and ill have a couple tix waiting (not NYE ;-) [email protected] and reference your post here.
ReplyDeleteWe're quite a bit different from them; looking forward to having you out.
HH.
High cost fashionable crap that looks absolutely moronic. It figures its stand up scottsdale. Shit like that is why I avoided scoittsdale during the 18 years i lived in Tempe and Phoenix.One of the most obnoxious cities in AZ. F* scottsdale,dolce,gabbana and this painfully unfunny comedian. Hey, you were right howard.
ReplyDeleteHoward, my family and I have been to Stand Up, Scottsdale. We liked the place except for the smoke problem you had prior to the makeover. We had a decent time. What we can do with less of is your mouth. You have a very smart mouth and you really need to zip it because you offended a number of people while we were there. Not with anything you said on stage, but with how badly you handle yourself while on the floor when dealing with customers. And Howard, until you apologize to me for the rude comments you made when responding to my post, I can promise you that neither myself, or any member of my large family who all live in the east valley, will ever set foot in your establishment again.
ReplyDeleteYou were rude; I was reasonable.
ReplyDeleteTake care, Joseph.
Glad you had a good time.
If you do decide to come in sometime, hit me up for a beer and conversation about this...and a couple tickets.
Carl Hungus! How have you been, brother!?
ReplyDeleteNice mask.
Scottsdale awaits your return from wherever it drove you off to.
Sadly things were crazy hectic. I am back often and will definitely be in to check out the place. Reviews are amazing. Keep it up Howard!
ReplyDeleteHoward, a man that enjoys The Big Lebowski. Bravo. By the way, saw the episode and you were great. I hope you continued success. P. S., nihilists are pussies.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm ever in Scottsdale I will definitely stop by! I also think its great your willing to speak your mind Howard.
ReplyDeleteHoward i am a great fan of comedy, you said that comedy isn't always about laughing, i'm sorry but it's what it's all about, Laugh Factory is a great spot for famous comedians to try new stuff, the small close venue is great for there working out new gigs, they don't charge outrages prices, with the Laugh Factory franchise it would draw them in just to look around and maybe try some minutes on stage, Scottsdale is booming, entertainment is in high demand, what are you thinking. My friend your ego is bigger than anything else, thats not gonna bring Jacksh!t in, Taffer is a highly experienced man with knowledge i would love to take in. Im very familiar with drama added for th show, but still, not sitting people in front filling up the stage so the comedians can make eye contact and engage the audience. Good Luck Brother!
ReplyDeleteGotta be honest, i've never seen the movie. Did I say something they said in the Big Lebowski?
ReplyDeleteHI, Mowerman. Again, you're points are made of things that weren't as they were. My quote was taken out of context and not in it's entirety. If you don't understand that a whole range of emotions go into building a comedy experience which culminates in laughter, you just don't understand why and how we laugh.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the seating, I'm a maniac about seating people in the front; that was done by the show to create the situation. It's hard to imagine how people can leave their good sense somewhere else when watching tv.
I can assure you, taffer was a dope while here, endlessly stumped. he didn't understand comedy clubs, he didn't understand "A" talent, and you were visually fed a reality carrot to make you think that only if you were given the opportunity, you the viewer, could do it.
Its laughable the "understanding" people feel they get from watching this show.
You don't understand the least bit about comedy branding, local economies, the politics in booking comedians, the financials in booking comedians, etc. You watched a show that empowered you to think you actually "know" something about this; you don't. Its that simple.
If you want to see what my comedy and ego does, check out any review site. Aside from a couple dopes who just can't believe the show fed them a spoonfull of dopiness, my ego and comedy have a long, strong record that speaks for itself.
If you ever get to town, (or perhaps you live in "booming" scottsdale - although I doubt it), please stop by. we can discuss my ego, you're willingness to give up your common sense when viewing the tv, and anything else you'd like.
Hi, Lucia, I hope so.
ReplyDeleteIt's a great time and we crush faces...comedically.
Thanks, Dan, we're working on it ;-)
ReplyDeleteHoward,
ReplyDeleteAs a business owner.. the show made you seem like you really only care about the performing aspect. Why wouldn't you hire people to fill in where your weaknesses were? they showed you all over the place.. why not hire a book keeper and a manager to handle daily responsibilities?..
You might have answered some of these
Hi, Randy. Yes, that's exactly how the show made it seem; that's the story they wanted to show. The reality is, outside of the show, there's nothing to support it.
ReplyDeleteHere's some further inside scoop: Jeff, the guy with the long blond hair, was my gm. He has a long successful history in night clubs, etc. He being there didn't fit their story, so they just wrote him out. I booked the comedians, ran the shows, and oversaw the business. He performed the day to day duties of the gm. At one point in the show, when we're standing infront of the bar as a group, taffer "fires" me, from being the gm that I wasn't, and makes Jeff the new GM. They were trying to make it seem like he was just some lackey I had around with this hidden ability to GM. They ended up not using it because I kept saying "youre being dishonest; he is the gm".
As for being "all over the place", I probably would say that naturally I'm the type of person doing a lot of things sufficiently, but not one thing amazingly. However, if you watch the episode looking for the inconsistencies, they're all over the place. Primarily, I doubt theres another episode with as many cuts and edits as ours. They really worked tv magic to put this story together. As I've said before, once taffer arrived, he didn't want me to wear the glasses anymore (he told the producers for me to take them off after the meeting in the "meat sauna"). SO, anytime you see me with my glasses on and supposedly interacting with taffer or doing anything while he's there, it just didn't happen (after the meat sauna scene; ie., that was the first time i met him;the crew had been the shooting for 4 or 5 days..i.e. the scenes where I'm wearing glasses).
Watch the episode again with that in mind and let your reason be the guide. Again, I wouldln't be outspoken about it had it not been so fictional. The seating issue...sure, it happened, because they made it happen; Frankie not getting served...again, produced. they made her go out, change her shirt, then come back and stand in the same place after my bartender had already greeted her and she said she needed a few minutes to decide. The hecklers...they asked them to heckle, I addressed them twice, then on the third time me and my bouncer walked them out.
I think mine was probably the start of this new style they do: creating havoc so taffer can get over the top. Its really gotten ridiculous but thats what the viewers want. They want to believe that these owners are idiots and just given the chance, they could do it better. Any fool can look at the current episodes and see how much they consider the intellect of their viewer. Just look at the c0mments on their pages; its the same folks who enjoy smash up derbies and fireworks. Just make it loud and obnoxious and you've got a hit.
http://illuminatiwatcher.com/doug-stanhope-exposes-formula-to-reality-shows/
Howard,
ReplyDeleteI thank you for filling us in on this. You have to remember a lot of us do not know the process of the show. My Media outlet is currently working on a feature of the show and spoke with Scott of the Public House and he filled me in on their rescue..I am surprised on some of the stories that i have heard to this point...
I am not taking a shot at you but after some of these shows air there are questions that are asked. Like any reality show, we all ask how much reality is in it?
I to am a fan of Comedy and i do wish you all the success..If anything the show re-airing brings in some extra publicity for you.
Best of luck in the future..
I appreciate Howard giving his side of things. Sometimes it can be hard for me to remember that 'reality tv' might not be all that real.
ReplyDeleteAs many have talked about, we certainly know what we're getting into before we do it and, had it been honest, I wouldn't have cared how much they skewed it. It just wasn't.
ReplyDeleteI think the airing of it does but, also on that front, we're not like the other bars they put on the show. People have to pay to come in here, so we don't see a whole lot. The show wasn't redeeming and it made it seem like I didn't care about the guests; who would chance spending money to someone they think doesn't care about them. This was truly the most astonishing part of the all the dishonestly (other than I'm not funny! ;-)
If you ever get to town, hit me up.
You really have no idea what goes on with these reality TV shows do you? These bar owners are promised the world only to sign the contracts and be met with excuse after excuse from production. How do you think it feels to fulfill your end of the bargain only to receive half ass work? To walk in and have to act happy about walls being painted half way up, or boards installed over leaky pipes instead of fixed, or your new tile floor being glued to the base with liquid nails instead of mortar. Then on top of all that to start receiving fines from every city department imaginable because no one cared enough to get the proper permits! Yes, some of these business owners may or may not be good business people, and are in trouble financially, but THAT'S WHY they ask Bar Rescue for help. The least they could do is come in with the best intentions for the bar in mind and actually try to help.
ReplyDeleteSmh
Hey Howard. I would love the opportunity to talk to you privately. Is that at all possible. By the way, I am a supporter and understand CLEARLY what you went through.
ReplyDeleteAre you doing this on Bar Rescue only or possibly other Spike TV construction shows produced by Eyeworks. I would love the opportunity to talk to you if you are.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty precise, rochelle.
ReplyDeleteyeah, sure...call me at the club sometime; I'm generally here all day...480.882.0730.
ReplyDeleteWhat do they care? You should see what they make their participants sign in order to do the show, your jaw would hit the floor!
ReplyDeleteI am really not surprised about how this show is produced. Bar owners that expect to be rescued have to play a part that doesn't reflect themselves or their business. Reality TV is a fraud. We have preppies growing beards and saying stupid shit, pawn brokers thinking their historians, and housewives who are frenemies bitching about each other. /facepalm
ReplyDeleteIt's good to hear that BR is "cleaning up some of the mess they made" with your "Rescue". It's also good to hear that you're still up and running! From the show it seems your club needed some remodeling and updating anyway. Not that all of what BR did was the correct thing but at least it got "you" motivated and spotlighted so that an entire nation now knows you exist and may go out of their way to pay you a visit! 'Grats!
ReplyDeleteYes, I'd say the same thing, in regard to the publicity. As far as the remodeling/updating, it just wasn't the case. The only thing that was remodeled/updated was the wall between the bar and the kitchen. That's a great addition. The rest was "upgrade" by taking away, ie. minimalizing certain spaces to make them appear stylish and useable. The show room looks great today; nothing like it did in the show.
ReplyDeleteIf you ever get to town, hit me up for tix...and a beer.
HH.
Just like Storage Wars "salt" the rental units, Bar Rescue has to "salt" the bars/owners. They are after all in the show business industry, which main goal is not to entertain a crowd like a comedian would, but to make money. One thing I do love about the show is that they give out the recipes for the drinks. Some of them are actually favorites of mine.
ReplyDeleteAnd about the drinks, I've traveled a lot, and drank about as much, and never, never would I publicly state that Smirnoff and Captain Morgan are PREMIUM drinks.
Thank you for setting the record straight, and best of luck in the years to come.
Howard,
ReplyDeleteJust curious, why is associating with Laugh Stop not viable? I am not an expert but John seemed to make a good case for it on the show. I am interested to hear why it was never viable.
HI. If i remember correctly, his "case" was that its a recognized brand, blah, blah, blah.
ReplyDeleteIt is a recognized brand, and along with that recognition is an expectation. Primarily and expectation of the comedians that will be there.
Atlhough the comedians I book do perform at the Laugh Factory, I get, they are not the perception of the general public. His point, as I remember was, the brand would pull the biggest names in comedy. It wouldn't. The bigger names are pulled by the money they can earn. A club has to have enough seats to sell to be able to pay the comedian their rate. The only way a huge comedian would come to my place is by hearing about it being a great stage, a fun place to perform, etc. and they'd just stop in for a guest set or something...not book a weekend.
Similarly, had we made the deal (which was a horrible deal even by the numbers), all it would take is one time for a guest to come in and not see dane cook or tim allen or any of the other big names one would see in Hollywood, and they'd leave saying, "it's only a Laugh Factory in name; it was just for the show". This was a major point of contention with me and taffer. He kept saying, "i'm going to make you an "A" comedy club!". And I kept saying, "you known nothing about comedy clubs, if you say that".
From his "expert", to his "A" comedian (who I like, just not an A comedian; he was put in a shitty spot by the show, as well), to the genuinely reckless, garbage "make over", it was from the get go, a show produced to their story, damn the reality.
To sum it up, if you don't have the seats, to sell the tickets, to pay the fee of the biggest comedians, you can't get the biggest headliners regardless of what your name is. And, as I said before, Taffer took us from 200 capacity to 140. He's was a total fraud in this episode.
Thanks, Jeff, I appreciate it. It's a fun show; much more before I was on it and saw the reality in relation to the finished product. It's still a fun show to watch, but its kind of like seeing a magic show after you know the trick.
ReplyDeleteIt is that, and I have to say that that is how the production goes about it from the get go. It is what we sign up for, however, you just can't imagine, before you see it, how they can create and distort things. I'm a mess, but the clubs and the comedy is great! ;-)
ReplyDeletePlease share your experience.
ReplyDeleteRochelle,
ReplyDeleteWas this geared towards me or Howard?
Hi, Howard. It's nice to see you responding to the comments in kind. I thought you seemed like a good guy on the show, just a bit of a jokester even when you might have needed to be more serious. Lol. I hope your business is going well and you are getting yourself out of debt. One thing I wanted to tell you, laughter IS the only response your customers should have to your shows. You don't want ppl angry or they'll boo and you don't want them sad or they won't come back. Just my thoughts. Anyway, good luck buddy!
ReplyDeleteYou dont know how bad I want to
ReplyDeleteHey Howard,
ReplyDeleteFan of bar rescue from Chicago and I'm gonna be in Scottsdale in a few weeks. Real excited to check out a show and have a few beers.
Right on...send me an email to [email protected] with show and time and i'll have a couple tix waiting.
ReplyDeleteThe one person with facts to share says "I don't know of any."
ReplyDeleteRochelle, how about backing up your screeds with some facts?
Nothing is stopping you.
ReplyDeleteA little something called a confidentiality clause is stopping me. My attorney advised me not to say anything...specific...yet.
ReplyDeleteRandy,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, I was directing it towards you. You had mentioned that your media outlet was working on a feature of the show, and was curious if this was "for" the show or "about" the show, and if about, if it was regarding reality shows in general or just Bar Rescue. If your doing a feature about the show, maybe we c ould talk somewhere other than here?
Now that its out in the open, here was our experience with this production company
ReplyDeletehttp://www.entlawdigest.com/2014/02/26/2973.htm
I would say I tend to deal with things that way; there's a lite side to everything-its just are to find sometimes ;-)
ReplyDeleteIf you get to town, stop in. I'll show you over a couple beers how a whole range of emotions go into a great comedy experience. Laughter, of course, is the cherry on the sundae, but how you get people to laughter is very important. And when that course brings to bare different emotions, the laughter is all the more rich.
I'll be taping my 1 hour dvd on March 23, if you're around. Its going to be filled to the brim with things you think you wouldn't laugh at; i promise that you will.
The business is growing and people love the shows; its really a unique comedy club. Let me know if you make to town.
HH.
jajaja...trust me, that wasn't my routine...jaja I'll a have a recent video up shorlty; you'll be surprised. I'm not as funny as Daniel Tosh, but if you like him, you'll def like my stuff. I'm more of a story teller, but with undertone (and overtones)...its aggressive and dark, but a lot of fun.
ReplyDeleteYour last statement is very true! Thanks for jumping in and if you ever get here, hit me up for tix and a beer.
HH.
I actually just watched the episode the other day and they definitely do not make you look good but from the parts of your routine they showed I though you were pretty funny.. No Daniel Tosh but pretty funny :)
ReplyDeleteGlad to see you all going strong...I enjoyed the show but figured certain things were there for ratings because if you were as bad as the show made you out to be the business investor would have canned you a long time ago.
I am very familiar with this production company...unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteJohn Taffer is a bar equipment salesperson. Much like Tim "Tool Time" Taylor. His "rescues" aren't to be taken too seriously.
ReplyDeleteSpike does a terrible job researching these bars. More than one used the interior decorating to better the sale of their business. They also have a very bad habit of not building to code. Never, once has the show shown inspectors before Taffer's big reveal. There are, however, several examples of unfinished work, work that wasn't to code, work done without permits, etc.
I'm confused. Is the Laugh Factory no more? It sounds like LF wasn't sustainable for some reason and the company has gone back to Stand Up Scottsdale?
ReplyDeleteHoward,
ReplyDeleteI give you much props for coming onto this site and "manning up" and replying to all the comments and questions. To all the viewers of Bar Rescue- unless you're a full on dope, you have to know a Reality Show's main goal is to create the "perception" of drama and chaos for ratings!! BR has a formula, its the same in every episode. The Owner is clueless, the kitchen and bar is a health violation. Every bartender over serves, so he/she is a thief and killing the bar. If ya watch the show you have to realize not all these people can't be that lame, some maybe but every single bar/club owner? Doubtful! We all have to been to bars and restaurants, you know what a sh*thole is and what a decent place is...common sense. Most places that are bad, they usually close down. As Judge Judy says "Case Closed!". Best of Luck Howard.
Thanks, scuba12, you nailed it. It's amazing the way people respond to this show. I couldn't count the number of times I heard "unless we get something to film, taffer will not show up/leave". The club want's something they believe to be of value; it must be in some cases. In mine, it wasn't...from the removal of the 60 chairs/tables, to the nonpermits of the signs/painting, to the fudging of the new equipment, etc (most was mine). enjoy the show, but don't make yourself look like a dope believing it lock, stock and barrel. If anyone is ever in the area, hit me up at [email protected] or here, I suppose, for free tickets. We;ll ahve a beer and I'll give you the tour.
ReplyDeleteHH.
BT, it never was a LF...never. Not even for the time it took to shoot the scene. Anyone with one bit of business/comedy understanding knew it couldn't work; the deal was untenable. Jamie was super great, but it was for show. The LF was up for all of 30 mins; to become a LF would have been disastrous; the numbers and perceived expectation just couldn't work.
ReplyDeleteThey're actually opening up a new club in north scottsdale; it was rumored at the time of the show, but nothing concrete. Comedy is about to get real exciting in this city; its going to be a blood bath between the 4 corporate clubs that will be here by end of summer: Stand-Up, Live, The Improv, The House of Comedy & The Laugh Factory...hopefully we can just have nice little niche in the center of the storm ;-)
HH.
Surprise, surprise, Howard manages to sabotage himself, his financier, and family again. Gee, I'm offered a national comedy franchise that will attract internationally known comedians, but I'd rather stay with a name that has a bad reputation , or even better, NO reputation. Yes, the whole world is coming to see the bitter, untalented, unsuccessful, and smarmy, the great HH !
ReplyDeleteGee, the bar is losing thousands of $$ of SOMEONE ELSE'S money, so let's continue to do the same thing and expect different results !
Howard, it's not your money you saved and worked for, it's someone else's money, so why should you care ??
Howard " bitter, failure" Hughes, who thinks-he's-a-comedian should care about anyone but himself ?
Soon, your money friend will finally grow some backbone and demand he not lose any more money or will shut this failure and monument to Howard's ego down.
Howard, whatever you think is the right call to make, just do what George Costanza did, do the opposite.
Just because your life is a bitter, sad, ugly failure, doesn't mean people want to hear about it, and especially to pay to hear it.
Comedy should be uncomfortable, make people cry, feel bad , and insult the customers ??
That didn't work in L.A., and it won't work anywhere else.
Let me give you the first rule of show business.
YOU HAVE TO BE LIKED !
Your pouting , cynical, whining, attitude may work in the print medium, but not when people pay to be entertained and expect to go home feeling better when they arrived.
Leave the comedy to the professionals, and try to get your bar to break even. At break even, your friend will probably let the place linger for years, just for the tax write offs .
Howard, how about every month the place loses money, you don't get paid. How long will you stay there ?
Ah, if other people don't get paid, or they lose money, what-me-worry, say Howard ?
Dude, you're a karma compromiser . You need to change your ways and live by the golden rule. Never heard of it ? DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.
NOT, "Howard cares only about himself and getting his stage time, the hell with everyone else"
Get rid of those goofy, dorky glasses, and try to smile.
You really think people go to work and admit they blew money and time watching a skinny, whiny, dorky glassed, pipsqueak tell lousy life-jokes ??
I hurt your feelings ? Good. Change your ways, or you'll end up with no friends, and in a bathtub looking for the nearest razor blades.
You've been given the opportunity of a lifetime. Find a successful comedian, learn how he does it, read some self help books, and take advantage of this golden opportunity.
Remember, the first rule in show business - Let the audience like you ! If you don't have them on your side, you're through before you get started.
Don't believe me? Keep doing exactly what you're doing, and I'll gladly serve you at your favorite soup kitchen next year.
Howard,
ReplyDeleteThere are a few specific things I'd like to know about. Mind you, I am asking these out of genuine curiosity and nothing else.
1) Leaving aside whatever issues may have been manufactured for this show, what was your original motivation for doing BR in the first place? Was the club losing money before they came? Are you making money now? Did you find any of the advice Jon gave you (whether shown or not) worthwhile, and if so, did you incorporate it?
2) On the 60 seat loss due to the new green room, do you still have the green room?
3) On permitting issue, was it in the contract that they would secure the permits necessary? If not, was there any discussion with the production company beforehand on the responsibility for it? (As an aside, I'm a little surprised that you need a permit to PAINT a building. Maybe Scottsdale is peculiar about it....)
4) Speaking of the exterior painting/signage, it seems you have kept the paint scheme and the marquee. I would assume that you are satisfied with them (code issues notwithstanding)? Do you find having the marquee helps business?
5) The wait times for food/drinks: Was that an actual issue? If so, has it improved since the show?
6) How do you feel about how Martin Scorcese portrayed your life in "The Aviator"? What was it like to fly the Spruce Goose?
Sincerely,
Dave
So, if you think that being a LF wouldn't work, does that mean you think that an LF will not work in Scottsdale, or that your club wouldn't work being a LF?
ReplyDeleteBizwiz, you're a dope (i said that with a smile and all the love in my heart). Please stop by and let me show you the reality. Better yet, identify yourself and lets go have lunch and I'll lend an earnest ear to your points. However, in this discussion, your credibility doesn't get you past your first assertion of being offered a National Franchise. You don't understand the most basic ideas surrounding a comedy club, the booking, the running, etc. You live in tv fantasy land where you see something, don't question it, then react to it. Stop being a dope; what you watched was not real; it was fraudulent on nearly every level except my glasses.
ReplyDeleteStop by; allow me to inject some reality into your tv viewing...maybe then, you'll do unto others based on reality instead of some dopey tv dream world you were lured into...Jesus would want it that way.
Hope to meet you sometime.
HH.
btw, if you're in town next week, stop by...
Hi, David, thanks for writing.
ReplyDelete1. It was my favorite show; i owned a club that, from my perception of the show, could benefit from it, especially aesthetically. We had lost about 70k the first year (we made a lot staffing, purchasing & booking errors, but moved to change them in short order). Our second year is just closing and we will have lost about 10k. This year, we're projected to make somewhere between 70 and 100k.
RE Jon's advice, what you really need to understand about this is that most of what you saw was not accurate. Anyone who has been here knows I don't spend one second of the night in my office; it jsut doesn't happen. Anyone can see from yelp or anywhere else that I am hands on, meeting and greeting guests, and making friends/fans; most love me, thats the reality (except for a few, and thats going to happen). If you would, ask me specifics of what advice he gave that you think I should implement and Ill tell you the truth, wether it serves me or not.
We do have the green room, but we probably wont for long. btw, it wasn't just the green room. the trick to BR is that them minimize spaces. The take things out, change the color and film it in a way that looks refreshing on tv....the reality is just so far from that. The green room, without a doubt, is silliness. so silly, that the tv in it, which he says the headliner can view the show from, is a lie. its not hooked up to anything. its just a tv sitting int he corner of the room.
3. to be honest, i couldn't tell you as to the specifics of what the entirety fo the contract said. Nothing was discussed. A reasonable person would have to assume that if you're a show doing a surprise makeover, that you'd be responsible and perform the due diligence that comes along with it. they had months to prep. And, yes, especially in a city like scottsdale which has an aesthetic style, painting is highly controlled, as well as, signage.
4. No, we couldn't keep any of it. the marque is now hung on the wall in the main show room. the building is repainted by them.
5. It was not an issue. As a matter of fact, the night before jon shows up, the producer comes to me and says that my staff is doing too well and they can't get any good b roll. I talk to my staff and ask them to make some issues.
6. the aviator was a great movie and I felt a rersponsible representation; I can't explain the goose.
Heres the very important thing to keep in mind, they had two options of a show to produce. They could have told the story of War Vet who's led a life that has taken him to middle east, to living in mexico city, starting a biz, beocming a comedian, getting married, getting divorced, coming back home to regather himself, being fortunate enough for a few people with the means to love his comedy and want to back a club, and is giving it a good go. That's the story we thought the were going with.
I can assure you, the story you saw was about as bogus as any could get. I'm not a failed comedian, I'm not event in it long enough to expect reasonable success. By most peoples' estimation, I'm very funny; thats just the reality. I don't care about myself more than the club, comedy, the guests, or the guests experience. that was probably the most hurtful depiction, both personally and professionally. Taffer was fraudulent, negligent and lacked almost all available integrity in this production. That's the truth. There's nothing to support the story they told anywhere on the web. Obviously, since the episode, some fans have come in and either seen me on a bad night of comedy or they're just unreasonably dopey; but prior to BR and after, the review have never changed. Most speak highly of me, my staff and the experience. No story a show can craft, changes that reality.
Thanks, dave.
well, we will soon see, as they are opening a LF up in north scottsdale. You have to understand, other than the fact that we met, the deal was ridiculous. I told jon as soon as he told me that it wouldn't work; once I heard the numbers they were talking, it was not a realistic offer based on the capacity.
ReplyDeleteThanks, bt, I appreciate.
ReplyDeleteI really like answering these questions; especially when they're asked with some reason and a level of skepticism for what is portrayed on tv. Unfortunately, and I blame the Marines, I also like going back and forth with the dopes that run their mouths on line.
Were still 1 for however many of BR fans that have come in with one perception and leave with a brand new one. Some people just can't see the reality forest through the reality trees.
Looking forward to a beer. Be sure to reference this thread when you come in.
HH.
Well, I didn't have a specific instance or piece of advice in mind. I'll watch the episode again and see if I could pick out something specific. One thing that pops to the top of my head, not exactly advice, but when you guys go into your office the night he shows up, did you really have all that unopened mail?
ReplyDeleteFrom what you've said here, I'm getting the impression that your place was not a good candidate for the show. It doesn't sound like your financials were all that bad. Granted, losing money is not fun (I used to have my own business, so I know that pain. Too bad there wasn't a "Hubcap Store Rescue" show back when I had it.....), but generally it takes some time for a start-up business to turn a profit. Since your loss decreased in the second year and you're projecting to be in the black soon, plus if your staff is not really all that dysfunctional, I don't see why you signed on for this show in the first place.
As for the permits, you are right that it's the responsibility for the contractor to get the permits. Also, I just watched an episode of afterbuzz.tv where they had Mr. Taffer call in, and he himself said that the 5-day window the show has doesn't leave them time to pull the permits. Also, you're not the only place that has had such issues. At the same time though, I'd think you'd be aware of such issues, considering you opened the place in 2012, which meant you painted the building and put up a sign not a year before, and thus would have some familiarity with the process.
I can see that your life story may be interesting, however the show is called "Bar Rescue", not "Bar Owner Profiles", which means that the emphasis is going to be on improving the location (your opinion of whether they actually did that or not notwithstanding) first, and on the biography and personality of the owner only as it it relates to and has an impact on the location.
So, like I said before, I don't think your location was a good candidate for the show. It doesn't sound like you were in the dire straits most the other places on the show were in, and my guess is your place was picked mainly because it was a comedy club, and they hadn't done one of those yet.
Regarding the mail, it was there, however, the tax doc I already knew what it was and the other was largely junk mail. Most everything is paid on-line; Very little of substance actually comes in the mail and is time sensitive.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes a good candidate is the drama they can make; the story they can tell. I can tell you, i've talked to other bars and they just weren't in the financial predicament the show made it seem. For mine, the 180k was ridiculous. And, yes, this year we should be in the black; its been an exciting journey, but not a journey unlike most biz, as you said.
After buzz is so ridiculous. They just perpetuate what the show puts out there without any reason whatsoever. They're just a shill for the show. But the truth is this, they don't have 5 days. They have months and they give you the idea that they are using it for show prep\production. Trust me, they know exactly what they're doing; they'd just prefer to ask for forgiveness than permission.
I was aware of the issues. So much, in fact, that as soon as turned around for the reviel, I broke from the line and went to jon and told him the signage was illegal and that the city wasn't going to be ok with the color. His reply? Everythings cleared. He even took a few seconds to explain why the sign was ok; I told him I didn't think so. The city showed up the day after they left told me it all was not permitted and illegal in the sign's case and that they only took out a film permit.
Regarding the story, the "profile" is a huge part of it; that's what they build the show around. They just chose to invent the premise that Im a failed comedian, who's blowing my investors' money, and doesn't care about the guest. My story along with being the building where david spade started doing comedy was a much more interesting story; he just wanted to come in guns blazing. That wouldn't be a tact he could easily take if they went with the heart-warming story. trust me, every single part of this show is produced. they don't fill you in on it as a participant, but every single thing is set up to get you to respond the way they need it.
And, yes, you're right, it was picked because it was a comedy club and because of the staff and personalities we have here. To be on this show, you have to be willing to give them what they want; if they feel you can't or won't do it, they move on to the next place. its entertainment.
HH.
I understand your point about the drama. Ultimately, it IS a TV show. 45 minutes of owners and staff nodding their heads and saying "You're right Jon" would make for a boring show that no one would watch. I've looked around for stories from other places, and listened to some of them that have called in to the Afterbuzz show, and the general sense I get is that they push for the things that are to one degree or another extant. There's an excellent article regarding Chilleen's on 17 that speaks to this point (they seem very happy with what the show did for them BTW).
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Afterbuzz...I'm a little surprised to hear you slam them, particularly since my mention of them was only ancillary to my comment, which was speaking to a point in your favor. Perhaps you didn't like what they had to say about you based on the show (You could have called in to them and told your side of the story. They've had Tracy from the pirate episode and "All In" James from Cashmere call in.) Also, I don't know why you're calling them shills. Bar Rescue is just one of many shows they do podcasts about, and they are clearly fans of the show. A shill is someone who is employed by someone else to act as an "independent party" and favorably promote that person or company. Are you saying that Afterbuzz is compensated by Bar Rescue for their podcast?(Maybe the word you're looking for is "Apologist")
At any rate, it really is too bad that all of it ended up not working out. I'm glad they came through and handled the issues with the painting. I'm also glad that your business is doing well regardless. Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. If I ever have any other questions, I'll post them here.
Howard,
ReplyDeleteThanks for coming onto this site and responding to everyone's comments. It should be pretty clear by this point that you're dedicated to running a successful business that exists within its means. I've been researching Bar Rescue extensively and there are far more stories like yours than ones that back Jon Taffer and Eyeworks.
I've been a fan of the show since its inception. I spent several Sundays absolutely sucked in by the day-long marathons but after doing all of this research, I can't watch this show any more in good conscience. It seems Eyeworks' (and by proxy, Jon Taffer's) main motivation is to create compelling television and not legitimately helping struggling businesses or individuals. If a business happens to improve as a result of their "work" (if you can call it that), yay for them but if not, it's no skin off of their back because they ultimately got what they wanted without spending a lot of money. I feel like such a fool for getting sucked by this shit (pardon my language). For someone who preaches so much about integrity and ethics, Jon Taffer seems to have very little of either which, in my eyes, makes him fraudulent and a liar. Eyeworks has absolutely no redeeming qualities at all.
Anyone defending Eyeworks/Taffer, I would implore you to ignore what you see on television and actually do your research about this show and other Eyeworks productions. The information is out there if you look for it and the irony of it all is aggravating, disappointing and, depending on how dark your sense of humor is, fairly amusing.
Thanks again, Howard, for sharing your side of the story and I wish you the best of luck with your club.
Dave
Hi, Dave, thanks for the good words.
ReplyDeleteIt truly is television and if people look at it like that, its entertaining. But, what the show does so well, is make the viewer feel like they're part of his team. When that happens, viewers take what they see, the don't question it (ie. the continuity issues in each episode are so blatant. But they know who their viewer is and they know they're not interested in if its real, just if its exciting. It's the WWE of assumed intellect and bar knowledge).
I'm certain Jon knows what he's talking about and probably has done amazing work. I can also tell everyone, he didn't get there by doing the kind of work they did in my bar. Its truly embarrassing to the show each time a BR fan comes in and I walk them through each and every perception they had. They def feel let down and betrayed by the show when they see the reality.
I can tell you that from the story line, to the "makeover", to the followup, it was as about as bogus as it could be. I would love for him to come back and do a follow up with this club. I guarantee he doesn't have that level of integrity.
http://illuminatiwatcher.com/doug-stanhope-exposes-formula-to-reality-shows/
I know the people of Chilean's and you'd be shocked if you went in there. That place is huge and they put up some chincy horse pics in the booths, etc. trust me, its not what you percieve in the show. I get that you want to hold on to some belief it what you're seeing, but its not there. Chilean's situation is much different. it completely changed their biz as far as the financials. The signage on the freeway, the bill board, as well, the story told. That was a very redeeming episode. Hot women, animals and motorcycles in the bar, drinking issues, and they all came out on the other side.
ReplyDeleteDo you think the motorcycle and horse were real? do you think that happened ever in that bar before it happened on tv? do you think the parents in the bar really drink like that at work? (not saying there were or were not serious drinking issues, in general).
Why be shocked at what I think of afterbuzz. They're just as dopey as anyone who watches the show, assumes a level of understanding, and then goes and attacks those people or speaks about it like they know something real. Its silly.
I found the word I was looking for; its shill. I spent a lot of money on a secondary ed degree to be able to select the words I wanted. There's very little separation between the two programs. You're being an apologist; they're shills ;-)
I appreciate the communication, DAvid, and I"ll keep everyone posted on the genesis of the business. If you ever get to town, stop by and I'll have a couple beers and tickets waiting.
HH.
I wouldn't say I'm an apologist, and I'm not under the delusion that all I see on the show is true. My point about Chilleen's had nothing to do with the perception of how "real" the things I saw were, but rather that they were happy with the experience. If anything, coming to this website has shown me that not every place featured on the show has a fairy-tale ending, and that there are some balls that the production has dropped.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, I still enjoy the show and think that, in general, the show is more helpful than harmful.
When I was in high school, my first job was at a 50s style car-hop restaurant. I was essentially the analogue to a bartender there; I was the shake boy. I've had crazy nights where I had 5 order tags on my board, and about 10 more tags shoved underneath the fifth tag. I've dealt with employees who don't give a shit about anyone else other than themselves (one incident comes to mind where I had a ton of orders, and I asked the car-hop cashier, who had nothing going on at that moment, to prep some shake tins by putting the milk in them, only for him to tell me "It's not my job"). I've dealt with lousy managers. And I see the advice given in this show, and I can see how it would've helped in situations I have experienced; not just in that job, but in others I have held as well. Therefore, I believe there is value to the advice given (your experience notwithstanding).
As for afterbuzz.....let's just agree to disagree there. BTW, a dictionary is a lot cheaper than a college degree ;-).
I was wondering when you'd get around to inviting me.....Honestly, I doubt I'll ever be in the Phoenix area. If I ever do go, I'll hit you up.
That Doug Stanhope link was fantastic.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny you bring up WWE as I'm a life-long wrestling fan (going on 25 years of watching). The big difference for me between shows like Bar Rescue and wrestling is that you *know* wrestling is a work and they don't really try to hide that from you..at least not anymore, it was certainly different in past decades. Bar Rescue, Restaurant Impossible, etc seem to all thrive on the fact that "this is some real life or death, sink or swim shit, man". It gets people to buy into it, I get that, but the methods they use to achieve this, in my eyes at least, go beyond the good natured, old school carny tactics WWE and the like use.
I hate to make this a comparison between the two but I don't really see pro wrestling promoters doing anything similar to violating municipal codes in order to further the illusion. That bothers me. Maybe it is just me though. I'm pretty old school in how I like my entertainment. Maybe Bar Rescue, To Catch A Contractor, etc are the new kind of "work" that viewers have to adapt to. I just really wish there were a readily available, highly populated community out there for people to discuss and debate said work as there is with pro wrestling. We have a massive, thriving community of people online who discuss the inner workings of the business and it makes it so much more entertaining.
Reality TV seems to not want anything like that. They don't want to be exposed and, for the most part, viewers seem to have no interest in exposing them. That just seems dumb to me. We live in the age of information. Why would you not want to know as much as you can about what you're watching?
I hear you; I don't know how i feel about that to catch a contractor. Its an obvioius cookie cutter from bar rescue, right down to the sound effects for the logo.
ReplyDeleteI think there are going to be some legal issues with that show; it'll be interesting to see what happens. it would be more interesting to see how its really produced.
RE bar BR, i think it may take this season before people see the reality of the production, especially when it comes to taffer. His reactions are getting farcical.
Dave,
ReplyDeleteI see your parents chose an excellent, manly name for you! I'm curious as your research, as I've done a fair amount of it on the bars I've seen on the show, and I have not come away with an opinion quite as jaundiced as yours. Would you care to elucidate a bit?
Dave
Howard,
ReplyDeleteAfter reading through most of the comments on here, I do applaud you for responding to most all of them sincerely and maturely, however, and I do recognize your dissatisfaction with Taffer et al. However, I do have a question, and that would be, did you, or did you not, receive anything, incuding publicity, from your relationship with Bar Rescue? I mean, at the very least, you did get something for free right? Something a lot of people who are running in the wrong direction would kill for, even if the guy who's giving it to you is hyping it up to be more than it is...even if the show provided no remodel/kitchen changes, etc., at the very least, it did generate some publicity for you that you seem to be maximizing the best way you can, so, maybe you should look at it that way...good luck with everything.
hey there, hell toupee, i like the name.
ReplyDeleteI know this is a lot to read through, but I've addressed that a couple of times. And I've said other good things came from it, as well, like the wall between the bar and "kitchen". Where the rub is here is in the depiction of my attitude toward the guest, comedy and the investors. It just wasn't accurate. In fact, it was the oppposite of what it is, and there's plenty of evidence of that everywhere.
Regarding the publicity, it was primarily a single edged sword. One things different with my club and the bars they show, we have a cover. You have to pay to come in here to see if my staff is here, what the changes were, if i really don't care, if I'm not funny. If the show produces a story, entirely false and not redeeming to the principle (me), then the viewer leaves the episode saying "what an asshole that guy is" and they don't want to spend their money to see if thats true. I can tell you, of the many that have come in because of the show, their reality concerning the show is blown. Its very easy to see through once you get here; its laughable.
Trust me, had the story been even close to accurate, I"d keep my mouth shut like everyone else. But the episode was damaging to the club both in reputation and financially. We barely survived overcoming their make over; thats the reality.
It did generate publicity but you'd have to be a huge fan of real comedy to listen to the things I was saying (as they edited it) and think I wasn't crazy. It was a pretty good hatchet job to control the viewer. Trust me, little of what was seen was real. It did happen, but it happend because of the situations they created and the way they edited the scenes (many from totally separate days) to make the reality for the show. it was fraudulent on many levels and taffer knows it. Which is why he'll never come here for a retrospective. He's got no integrity in this case and he knows it.
Where is Brandi's beaver?
ReplyDeleteI applaud you for offering to reason with the tv-hypnotized, prejudiced, self-serving life coaches of the world. They don't deserve your kindness, if you ask me. I'm truly astonished by the venom being sprayed here. It is a sick thing for one to behave as if they know you personally, based on what they have seen on tv, or on what opinions they have read in a discussion thread written by other total strangers. Although I don't know you personally, I think I can assume with confidence that, as a professional comedian, you could be tearing these "hecklers" to shreds with the wit that you have had to necessarily hone through years of dealing with the real thing, face to face, in your audiences. Well done, and I wish you success.
ReplyDeleteYou're a dick. Get a life. Go ahead a spray some more of your anonymous hate my way. I won't respond. Just try to keep your diseased bile out of the soup you serve to people you hate (I'll assume that's everyone). Fucknut.
ReplyDeleteHey Dave and Howard I'd like to chime in here.
ReplyDeleteI worked in pro wrestling for 4 years, was a video editor at an NBC affiliate station in a top 10 market. I also was featured on a few reality TV shows including one where they shot it with a wrestling company I was working for at the time.
Dave I do agree with you in that there is a common perception that reality TV is more real than it really is. As an editor I have a good understanding of how things can be fabricated into completely different stories. I also know that there are many reality TV shows that are completely staged.
When I was working in pro wrestling I would do security for their events. The show All worked up came in and followed my supervisor. They'd stage stuff that would happen without telling any of the other people doing security. So in a sense we treated it as if it were real, but there were indications that things were not exactly legit. One episode they had a guy jump the guard rail and we had to grab him and escort him out of the building. I had no knowledge that it was going to happen before it did. When we were dragging the guy out I noticed he didn't even seem to fighting it, was just there wiggling his arms. After watching that show from what was there when I was at the shooting and how it was edited was pretty funny. Sometimes they cut from one building to another, like a shot of him running to the back and he went from philly to chicago.
So when Howard says that it was fabricated I don't doubt it. The problem is they do blur the lines and it makes it difficult for the viewer to know the real story. I enjoy finding out the real story to things, or at the very least get another perspective.
When I was working as an editor for the news, I was given a script of how it was supposed to look on the screen. I saw how they'd slightly trim sound bites to make it fit their agenda. I'd be there watching the fully interviews and then be forced to cut it to imply something else. That was one of the factors that lead to me quitting, I found what I was doing to be dishonest.
My feeling about reality TV is that when you watch it you have to watch it as a skeptic. It's easy to sit back and say "oh look at this idiot on TV" essentially making people feel better about their own lives. People like to feel like they're smarter than other people, it's a good feeling. Which is why reality TV works when you make people look like idiots. Most people are smarter than an incompetent idiot. But at the same time, you never know what is real or fake on TV.
When you get involved with a product like that you need to just be aware of what can be done. I sold a few clips to those web shows like ridiculousness and world's wildest vacation videos. It goes with the territory of being involved in their production. Granted it is different when it involves the public perception of your business. However besides the cosmetic issues and false perceptions it seems that the show did well in the respect that now a lot more people are aware that you exist. I live in New York, I'd have never heard of your business if it weren't for the show. Just got to do your best to answer questions and keep a dialogue about your involvement in the show. Which you seem to be doing a good job at.
Howard I wish you the best of luck with your comedy club, if I'm ever in the area I'd be interested in stopping by. But being from New York thats quite a hike, so not very likely.
Great answer Howard, the more I actually take the time to listen to you, and a little less time 'reacting' to Taffer's dramatics, I'm really starting to understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately, Bar Rescue is using entertainment tactics to trick people into thinking that they are all about ethical business behavior, and given the attention span of the average American these days, it's tough to compete with that.
ReplyDeleteAs viewers, myself included, we all have to keep in mind that everything on TV is a product made to order- even the news. Entertainment shows are purely that no matter what genre they are listed as falling under or what name they are given. Everything is manipulated whether on the front end via scripting or the back end by the edit monkeys. Nothing is true except that making money selling commercial air time trumps everything else. Here's to all your future success' and my humblest apologies, because from what I've seen with the way you've conducted yourself in here, the show completely misrespresented you. Take Care, Jason in San Diego
PS Let's start our own show "Bar Rescue from Bar Rescue"!! We'll pitch it to TruTV and follow around Taffer's crew and go in to all the Bars after he supposedly has rescued them - boy, would that generate some publicity for TruTV!
"A Bar Rescue from Bar Rescue" - actually we wouldn't even have to wait until the Bar Rescue crew left! We could go in while they were in mid-shoot, or mid-construction, and pull a Taffer on them. Ripping their shoddy construction with their penny nails off the walls, tearing out Taffer's velcro'd down drink mixers, and then we could yell in his face that we are shutting down his production until he fixes it, and maybe, just maybe, we'll be back in the morning! All while we filmed with our own production crew ... Great! I'm ready. I could see all the tabloids and news programs talking about it now "Jon Taffer & Bar Rescue shut down!"
ReplyDeleteA reasonable person would have understood "I like the Laugh Factory, Scottsdale. However and with that being said" would have indicated they had been to your establishment before. Everything after that was a bit insulting.
ReplyDeleteRight on, jason, I appreciate it. Anyone with a bit of objective viewing can see how they create these episodes...these new ones are so transparent, its hard to believe people fall for it. There's zero continuity in the audio or the visual aspects. I just watched our's today and its laughable. Here's a notice I made today: any time a person is saying something and they're not being show on the screen, that's an edit to make that scene work. I guarantee, in my case, those words were spoken on another day, for another reason.
ReplyDeleteTaffer is really out of integrity; I wouldn't be surprised if he offs himself someday...its got to be hard to live with the reality of what he's done with some of these places and to the people that own them. I can't imagine things ending well. Unless they go to a completely honest, earnest help model, theyre gonna have to keep amping up the drama to keep the viewers...that's America today...just make a bigger bang. Someone will get shot or kill themselves, no doubt.
Great idea on the show; it certainly wouldn't be hard to do. Take care and if you get to Scottsdale, hit me up for a couple tix and a beer. I love San Diego; was stationed at camp pendleton for 4 years...great times.
HH.
No body "makes" them sign. They are doing bad in managing the business then they want to sign on the line with the devil to help them out. If they dont want to sign, they can walk away. I personally dont care that much about the show, but it goes both ways. TV is Entertainment, its always BS, even the news we watch. lol
ReplyDeleteHey Howard,
ReplyDeleteVery little has been said (on a greater scale, not just this show/episode) about how insulting it is to the audience when things are chopped and reconfigured in totally obvious ways. I get the Housewives' pseudoreality, but for Spike/Eyeworks to take a premise with a built in narrative and blow it out to comic (no pun) proportions belies a great contempt for the viewing public.
I didn't read this feed before seeing your episode, but could've assumed much of it was wack due to poor chronology, and anachronistic issues. The biggest piece of shit "venue makeover" show is still 'Mystery Diners', but I really wanted to like this, and found it impossible.
These thoughts are incomplete but sincere, as I just found this thread by chance after viewing the episode. I'm in Tempe but have never been to SUS, and I'm now making it a priority.
Real quick though -- did you tell Brandy to lose all motor functions during the drinks demo? She appeared completely incompetent.
Cheers.
Hey there, deckphx, thanks for joining in.
ReplyDeleteYeah, anyone with understanding of production can see the hack job this piece was; its hard to believe people can let go of reason so easily. It is unwatchable unless your sitting on your couch, hating your job, and getting caught up in the romance of what an idiot this owner is and how, if only given the opportunity (that this person is squandering), you could do so much better.
Let me know when you want to get in and i'll have two tix and two beers waiting (just be sure to request it here or remind of this if you just show up to the club).
Brandy actually wasn't one of our bartenders; they put her there to create the experience.
HH.
Great post
ReplyDelete"My feeling about reality TV is that when you watch it you have to watch it as a skeptic" really rings true. Truth be told, I don't watch much reality TV for this reason. BR was one of the few I did watch. It just never ceases to amaze me how how television/media will sink for views/listeners/readers.
Jeff, just because someone lives here doesn't mean its reasonable to assume they've been here. His original posts just sounds like someone who saw the show and then ran their mouth based on those depictions. In this case, turns out he says he's been here, then ran his mouth-which I can respect.
ReplyDeleteWe're not for everybody, in this case, Joe's very large family, and we're ok with that. I'm sure he has some rebels in the family who will want to see the place dad/uncle joe warned them about. When they do, we'll be here to give them a great experience...my mouth and all ;-)
You mixed up " as a local from Mesa" with "I like the Laugh Factory, Scottsdale. However and with that being said." Being from Scottsdale doesn't suggest he's been to your place. Claiming he likes it suggests he has more information than what the show offered.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I don't think anyone with a worthwhile opinion formed it entirely from a tv show. If that is where their entire opinion comes from, good luck using reason to change their minds. The irrational are rarely swayed by reason.
yes, its a never ending effort; unfortunately for me, one that I enjoy.
ReplyDeleteHoward,
ReplyDeleteI like your glasses. 😎
~ Caroline
Tempe Improv is the shit, bottom line. -John Taffer
ReplyDeleteFor every little city and town they visit? You expect them to know every nook and cranny of every place's convoluted building codes? Dude...
ReplyDeleteI thought their job was making an entertaining TV show. Unless you mean the local contractors to hire. Yes - it is their job. But it's not the show's fault when the contractors mess up or ignore the law.
ReplyDeleteYou really a simpleton or a troll or both. It is the job of the producers/show runners to make sure that everything is perfect. That means that if Jon wants to put up a big new sign on the outside of a building, especially in a city such as Scottsdale, it is the job of the producers/show runners to make sure that it is legal.
ReplyDeleteMaking an entertaining show is one thing, but when your show touts "bar science", then you owe it to the viewers (and to the bar owners) to follow the local ordinances and building codes.
It is a TV production For entertainment ! They do NOT have yo go by code or owe it to anyone to follow any codes except to the shows investors to make money and have viewership They are not in the " legal" city construction bussiness they are in the Entertsinment bussiness and it states that in the contract that is signed I believe you ( Phoenix Justice) is the " simpleton " by calling others names on something you clearly know nothing about ! THE reality TV ENTERTAINMRNT WORLD IS NOT REAL LIFE !!!
ReplyDeleteMegan and Norm, this isn't an arguement of supporting the show or not; he's saying, as well as, anyone without a dog in the fight would say, "if you're going to do surprise work, its your job to make sure its legally done"....the law would say that.
ReplyDeleteIf it were a fishing show, they couldn't come in and catch fish without a license, or hunt, or anything else. They knew they had to get the license to film, they just didn't want to pay for the other licenses and figured we'd just accept the fees.
Its the cost of your "entertainment". They have months to figure this stuff out; they're just doing it on the cheap and asking for forgiveness instead of permission...they're not stupid. Now, the way they treat their viewers? That's a different story; they treat them like they're dumber than wwe fans. I wouldn't be surprised if taffer becomes a pro-wrestler at some point yelling, "shut it down", right after he does some patented move...probably running out of the ring flailing and yelling to the delight of the viewers.
If you guys ever get to town, let me know and I'll ahve a couple tix and beers waiting. I'll give you a first hand account of what you percieved from the show; you'll be stunned.
HH.
its in a safe place.
ReplyDeleteyeah, anyone who knows anything, knows that.
ReplyDeleteunless they know comedy, then they know something else.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the insults. I'm a simpleton and a troll. You sir are a giant of debate. How can anyone argue agains such eloquence? You mental midget.
ReplyDeleteJust a small point, Howard. The bike in the bar was likely real but 'staged' :) Lots of small town bars that cater to bikers do what they call 'burnouts' They pretty much do just what you saw on the show. It might have been staged for filming but probably happened in the past well before BR was on the scene.
ReplyDeleteA local bar here routinely has riders do that after a big ride. It's an old turn of the (last) century building with the original hardwood floors. I'm surprised they still have floor left :) Now THAT"S a bar that needs rescued.
Actually, you're right with the horse, although it was a miniature pony they had in before. That's not the case with the bike; it was new.
ReplyDeleteWe all have a level of acceptability of how we are perceived vs. what we receive for that perception.
Overall, they helped Chilean's immensely; primarily with the pub/signage. In our case, overall, they hurt the biz with the non-permitted work, the removal of the chairs, the grill, and the story they invented about how I don't care about the guests and the business.
I'm not saying across the board he doesn't care what he does to a business; i'm saying in this case, they wanted to tell a story, then they just made everything fit as best they could.
stop by some time and i'll have tix and a beer waiting; i'll show you around first hand.
HH.
Oh honey, I wasn't dismissing anything you've said about your experience and have enjoyed reading your comments immensely. Cheers!
ReplyDeleteIt's just most people have no idea a 'burnout' by a motorcycle in a bar is really not unusual in small town bars that cater to riders. I'm not sure what you mean by a 'new bike' but at the bar I mentioned that was the first thing a guy did when he bought a new bike... went to his favorite bar for a burnout.
And... no beer... Jack Daniels if you please. Though it's unlikely I'll ever make it to your neck of the woods, I would certainly stop in if I did.
Howard, I just saw a repeat of the show and was blown away. My first thought was you must have compromising pictures of Nathan, because first you got $100,000 out of him, then he didn't pull the plug on you. Not surprised you didn't keep the LF name, as you would have to pay a lot of money to Kevin Nealon, Dom Irrera, etc. to play there, and after reading about the loss of the 60 seats, that didn't seem feasible. Door deals can work, but not consistently and not for that level of talent as your mainstay. Anyway, I was concerned about you saying that laughter isn't the only response you should get at a comedy show. Maybe you're misunderstood, maybe you mean that the nature of some subjects or jokes can call up some other emotions as you head to the punchline? Personally, I've gotten some groans, but they were intended. They were preceded by and followed by great punchlines or tag lines. The "range" of emotion lasted a few seconds. If I make people sad or angry, they're going to heckle, get belligerent or walk. Not sure of any comedy show I know where a patron reported they had such a great time because they wanted to punch the comic, or they ruined their makeup crying and can't wait to come back.
ReplyDeleteHoward,
ReplyDeleteI just watched the repeat of the show that aired, and I was curious as to how the whole Laugh Factory thing panned out. I live in Scottsdale and have enjoyed my three trips to the Tempe Improv and wondered how everything was still going after the show.
I ended up here and just spent the past half hour or so reading all of your comments, and I must say that I respect the fact that you take time out of your day to shed a little bit of light on the situation and respond to peoples' posts (friendly, rude or otherwise). The show really put you in a poor light, but reading through here gives a much better perspective on the behind the scenes of the show, your club and who you are.
Congrats on all the success (in spite of the show, not thanks to) and I hope things continue to grow and improve for you guys. Hopefully I can make it out there one day to see a show and say hi. Take care.
Jacob
Howard,
ReplyDeleteI just watched the repeat of the show that aired, and I was curious as to how the whole Laugh Factory thing panned out. I live in Scottsdale and have enjoyed my three trips to the Tempe Improv and wondered how everything was still going after the show.
I ended up here and just spent the past half hour or so reading all of your comments, and I must say that I respect the fact that you take time out of your day to shed a little bit of light on the situation and respond to peoples' posts (friendly, rude or otherwise). The show really put you in a poor light, but reading through here gives a much better perspective on the behind the scenes of the show, your club and who you are.
Congrats on all the success (in spite of the show, not thanks to) and I hope things continue to grow and improve for you guys. Hopefully I can make it out there one day to see a show and say hi. Take care.
Jake
Hi Howard,
ReplyDeleteIf you can remember the context, what did you mean by laughter isn't the only reaction related to comedy? The show made it seem like you thought making people feel like shit was entertainment, but to be honest the whole bit didn't make sense so I was wondering what you were really trying to say.
Hello, A. Comic. I'm not certain what you're saying with your first point, just keep in mind, you saw and understood the story BR wanted to tell. I'd just let your good reason be your guide (unless you want to clarify it and get my answer).
ReplyDeleteThe LF things was nonsense...jamie was great, but anyone with half a comedy biz iq knows instantly what a death nail that would have been.
No need for you to be concerned about your perception of what it seemed I said; its a show, obviously I didn't say that as they showed it. I'm not concerned with what other comedians do or how they pull off what they do; that's already being done.
Beyond that, you nailed it. There isn't a system to comedy (not good comedy, anyway). Teaching an audience how to hear you, taking them where they may not knowingly go and getting them out on the other side feeling good about having stayed on the ride, is what I do. There's plenty of testament as to how it works out. If you get to town, stop by and witness, then give me your comedic two cents; I'm certain you'll choose just say "nice job. I can't beleive BR showed you like that", like 98% of the people who have come in from the show.
People, whether your a comedian or a person with a dream to open a bar, keep in mind you're watching a show; don't let it yank your chain. Breath deep and reason...that's really all it takes. HH.
Thanks, Jake, I appreciate that. The improv is great but they nor SUL or any of the new clubs opening can provide the experience we do. We're a throwback, oldschool comedy club. Its a totally different experience.
ReplyDeleteHad BR and Taffer treated this episode with even a little bit of integrity, I would waste my time responding to the clowns (I would the reasonable people). But they didn't. they told a story that was entirely fabricated to tell their story. Let me know when you want to stop in and I'll ahve a couple tickets ready for you, and a couple drinks. Ill show you around and answer any questions you may have; you'll be stunned.
Regarding the LF, it was for show. Everyone knew we didn't have enough seats to be able to carry the comedians that people would expect. it was an obvious no brainer; it was for show (especially once they gave us the deal; it was not reasonable).
HH.
There are two thoughts on comedy:
ReplyDelete1. make them laugh however you have to;
2. (mine) make them listen, and feel, and then laugh when you(I) want them to.
The first ones are comedy clowns; the second ones are comedy matadors.
I hire matadors.
It takes longer to cultivate but the results are lasting. People know when they've experienced real comedy and when they've been showed a bunch of balloon animals from dopey comedy class comedians or just old timey hack jobs...and if they can't see and understand the difference, this isn't the club for them.
We only have 180 seats; we don't need everyone...just the smart one ;-)
HH.
I think Jon Taffer knows his shit, and he brings in experts when he doesn't. I dig the show. I also know there's a level of "production" and "drama" created for the show. It wouldn't be fun to watch iff he walked in and said, "I'm here to fix your bar," and everyone said, "Yay! Do whatever you want! Thanks!" Some episodes it's the thieving bartender, some it's the bitchy waitress, some it's the nasty cook, and many it's the unrelenting and/or egotistical owner. It's TV.
ReplyDeleteRegarding your thoughts on comedy, there's a large gap between the hacks and balloon animal comedy clowns (you mentioned in reply to someone else) vs working, funny comics. It could be semantics, and maybe it's not coming across in cyberspace (or on TV), but it seems like you're saying every comic out there that just gets laughs, no matter how many, is worthless to you.
I'm sure that's not what you're saying, it just comes across that way. Any way you can clarify that for me?
I don't think there is a gap at all. And its not about the amount of laughter; its about the quality of the reason why they are laughing. There's a "club" right down the street (not a real club, but they've been in the same place for 10 years with a produced show) that has to put 5-8 bringers on every show to pack out an 88 seat room. Why? Because they've taught strangers that the show, except for the headliner generally, isn't worth your time and money. The way comedy clubs have run their business has turned comedy, in general, into a bringer business. If you have to bring people to a comedy show and you don't get any of that money, you're not doing comedy; you're doing adult talent shows. That's just the reality.
ReplyDeleteYou're either a clown or a matador.
Comedians who's only goal is to make an audience laugh are not comedians I'm interested in. Not to say that at the very high range of those types there aren't some original comedians, but they are few and far between. It's mostly hacky, tried and true garbage (automatic hand washers/dryers, black/mexican/white/asian people do this, etc.) Very little original point of view.
Comedians that can make an audience laugh and think and feel; I'm interested in.
We happened to have a show last night and had 3 different people come in who had seen the show just yesterday. All three came to me after the show and said basically the same thing "I didn't really understand what you said during the show about comedy isn't about laughing (I say its about listening...and they chopped up my quote to fit their story) but sitting here watching you do your set, I totally got it".
The truth of everything I do and think is evident in the genesis of this club. One show, regardless of how much you respect the host, can change that. I don't doubt that Taffer is very knowledgeable; in this case, he was a dope, fraudulent and lacked nearly all integrity to the club, to entreprenuerialship in general, and to the reasonable common sense of his viewers. He knows that and that's why you'll never see him visit or take a look back. He perpetrated a fraud on his fans. That's the reality.
This is where I'm reading the gap: bringer comic, open mic comic, balloon animal artist, hack AS OPPOSED TO the other types of comics. You're essentially saying the same thing that I believe...I think...but you're very intense with how you say it. It has me, and I'm assuming others based on the expert on the show and other posts here, believe that you want people sobbing and angry and vomiting, all sorts of other things, and then they laugh at the end and go "Hey! I dug that ride!"
ReplyDeletePatton Oswalt has talked about how some set ups can illicit inflammatory emotions, and then the punchline brings them around. If you're talking about that, then we're on the same page - it goes back to my initial post about emotional roller coaster ride for a few seconds, then punchline.
If you're talking about a 10 minute set up of negative emotions followed by a nice punchline that supposedly ties it all in, I'm afraid I can't agree with that.
Then again, I don't run a club. I'm just a comic.
Talking about owners running comedy into the ground...I agree 100%. I don't know if they did it to themselves, or it was done to them and they perpetuate it. What I mean is, if too many rooms were opening and audiences were getting sparce, then owners might have had to go to bringer shows to save/make money. Of course that turns into a shitty rep, which means even less people want to come out. Chicken vs. egg.
The problem is, that's what a lot of owners are still doing. No one seems to know how to or want to promote/advertise. A post on the FB page, update the schedule on the website and change the enclosed glass marquis that's inside the restaurant the club is in and they expect people to show up. Or, they expect comics to promote, or draw. The problem is there is a very, very small percentage of comics who can draw. Comedy is fickle, you know this. You start out and all your friends come to your shows, then you grow and move up and can't get friends out anymore because they've seen your act 30 times in the last six months. There's a long stretch from that point until you become a draw, if you ever do. So, it's an unrealistic expectation on a comic unless they're a known entity. And promotion is the same thing. A comic's going to put in on FB and Twitter, and if he/she is in a town where they know people, they'll call those people. Headliners should be willing to go on radio to promote, but after that, isn't it on the owner to put asses in seats? I digress.
Anyway, I think I understand where you're coming from and wish you the best!
Thanks...the reason "comedians" can't get people to come after a while is not that the audience is fickle, its just we're not funny. It's ok to not be one of the handful of comedians that strangers care about. It's not a softball league (well, it shouldn't be but thats what clubs & "comedians" are turning it into). It's not a community, its not a support group--its certainly not a place where consensus matters, at all; its a solely individual journey. Nothing that has been, can be. Traditional constructions are just that; if you're forming your sense of humor on those, then you're not doing comedy. You're doing someone else's sense of comedy. Its not about giving an audience what they need to make them laugh; its about figuring out how to say what you want and get an audience of strangers to hear it and feel it like you do...so that they get the same reaction as you had.
ReplyDeleteI'm not interested in anyone's joke theory, agreement or disagreement, etc.
I'm interested in mine; what I want to do; what I want to say and how I want to say it...and the type of business I want to build, as well as, the people who care about it.
No amount of promotion can make up for comedy that should be being paid for by strangers. Much of the comedy you're referring to is marketing to get "butts in the seats"; all of what I'm referring to is just comedy for the sake of comedy...solely based on the desire for strangers to value it enough to pay for it.
I'd say its less intensity than it is certainty.
HH.
...and you have that luxury, owning a club. Most owners won't allow for that, most comics can't get past anything but an open mic if they don't just go for laughs a minute. I'm not just talking hack, although a disturbing amount of owners go for hack because laughs equal coming back (also why many owners don't care if a comic steals from another comic - the crowd laughed).
ReplyDeleteYes, its an individual journey, but networking with other comics (community) can get a comic gigs. When you're working with other comics, nightly, weekly, on the road, etc. you tend to form friendships. It becomes very much a community, because we do what most people won't, and can't. It's like professional sports players. Mike Trout of the Angels doesn't get paid by what Albert Pujols does. But those two play a game most can't play past 18, and at a level only about 1,200 on the planet can play at. It behooves them to be friendly, bond, help each other out.
Unlike you, who can go on stage any night you want, most comics have to audition, network, plead, beg, borrow, steal and blackmail to get paid gigs. Obviously, I'm being dramatic, but the point is that your line of thinking works for you, specifically.
I tend to disagree with your assessment of why people won't come out anymore. I also somewhat agree with it. Most comics aren't really that funny when they start out. They're definitely not good. So, yes, in the beginning, if you're same ten friends are coming out to support you every week, it's going to be tedious after three to six months.
However, the comics that work at it, write, practice, and keep getting on stage get better and better, and develop new stuff. The problem is, most people's tolerance level stops after a few weeks. They gave you their time, they saw you perform fifteen times, now you're just Howard again. They might catch you from time to time, if you're working with a known comic or in a known venue, but just like you might only drive a friend to the airport one time, or never, ever, help them move, there's a limit to what people will do, and especially en masse. In other words, it's unrealistic for an owner to think that a comic two years in is going to bring a bunch of people to a club.
But, in the end, the way to KEEP butts in the seats is to put out a great product. The way to GET butts in seats is advertising and promotion. Just having a club doesn't guarantee people come in. Having a club with a good product insures they keep coming, don't you think?
Rochelle, please post the BR contract with the details redacted.
ReplyDeleteHH, I totally commend you for coming onto this forum and offering insights and your explanation. Unlike "Rochelle Kirk" you have the balls to stand-up and state your side of the story.
ReplyDeleteHave you consulted an attorney to see if you have the merits of a case against Jon and BR?
Thanks, Food dude...no, i'm not interested in any of that.
ReplyDeleteThe money it cost the biz, although not easy to weather, was not enough for legal action.
My biggest gripe is the story they made up; that hurt the business at the time more than any monies I had to pay to fix their crap renovation.
Taffer and BR were dishonest about a locally owned, great club just to make an interesting program.
Its an integrity thing.
I totally think that.
ReplyDeleteI just disagree with your premise, although I did it myself initially. If you have to bring people to get on a weekend show in a real comedy club, you're (a general you) just not funny.
Its a fabrication to say that you need to be a bringer when you start. You don't. You just have to be funny in an original way or you have to have the integrity to stay in bar shows and open mics. This biz has been taken over by "comedians" who tout bs accomplishments "performed with...", "opened for...", performed at..."..etc...if we have to tell someone who we are, we're no one. And thats ok.
Before I had a club, I was able to get strangers to come and see me. it has nothing to do with my "place" now; its about the comedy. About the interest a stranger has in listening to what I have to say.
Nothing works, not even advertising and promo, if the acts are bringers. You get one chance to get over on an audience. If you take that chance, you lose them...of course, until you have their nephew, cousin, brother/sister on the lineup and they have to sit through adult talent show comedy again.
When you strip aways the garbage biz of comedy, the hustling of comedians, the hustling of audience members, etc, comedy is very simple. Be good enough to not have to bring, or know you're place and rise above. Comedy isn't for everyone; its not a community...and comedy clubs, producers, and comedians should have more respect for an audience of paying strangers than to put someone on a weekend show just because they can bring people. They're not funny.
And, yes, I think we're thinking similarly ;-)
HH.
Yeah, I totally agree. Bringers are the bane of the comedy world. Just like competitions. They give a comic a false sense of comedy, negative and positive. If you come in 1st place at Club ChuckleLaugh because either you brought more people, or because you impressed the local weekly columnist, former radio host and restaurant owner (judges), that means nothing. But if you don't place, that really means nothing, too. Bringers? I will allow you time on my stage if you bring X amount of people. That's not comedy.
ReplyDeleteBut, unfortunately, those are some ways that comics can get near a club/booker, get stage time, etc.
Ultimately, yes, it should be the funny comics rise to the top. The tough part is the people who control that fate (bookers, managers, owners) aren't always the most open minded. They're bottom line minded and closed minded. If they don't already know you, you got no shot. Or, if you do badly one time, you're doomed forever with them. Etc.
Please tell me that was a Tom Waits reference!!
ReplyDeleteAnd the owner is a mental midget, with the IQ of a fence post.
Cause the piano has been drinking
"Brandy actually wasn't one of our bartenders; they put her there to create the experience."
ReplyDeleteJesus Motorcycling CHRIST! Every time I think Bar Rescue could not stoop any lower with their utterly fake "reality", they prove me wrong!
For what it's worth (not much, seeing as though I did not get the real picture of what's going on), I cared for you, your sister and your friend who invested in the bar. I though you were nice people.
My final though is: I believe that this kind of show could be made interesting without twisting truth so flagrantly.
By the way, I saw your standup routines on YouTube, and you impressed me with your talent! You are way better than what the BR episode let out. Good luck with your comedy!
LOL, I agree! Those glasses are formidable!
ReplyDeleteThanks, I appreciate that. I am right with you on that thought, as well. Especially our episode; our real story is a great one, however, it just wasn't the story they wanted to tell. The fully fabricated a story and sold it to viewers at the expense of the business. A hugely disappointing experience being a fan of the show. Thats what he sells - his integrity, etc. In this case, he was void of any and he knows it. If you ever get to town, stop in for a show and a beer on me.
ReplyDeleteHH.
Yup, your story especially, would have made for a great BR episode. Sorry, no can do: commercial media are run by lobotomized people, for lobotomized people.
ReplyDeleteI thank you for the kind invitation - I will take you up on that offer if and when I visit the US again.
Right on. Check back with us on fb as we're shooting an episode of Bar Re-Rescue. I'm building the dj booth into the huge green room he made so we can fit more of the 60 seats he removed from the show room. Where are you writing from?
ReplyDeleteNorthern Europe. I've been to the US three times, but never as West as Arizona.
ReplyDeleteWhat's this Bar Re-Rescue? Not with the same Jon Taffer people, I hope?!
Looks like I really must get a FB account, after all 8-)
Right on...its just a mockery of the show that we're doing to show the garbage he left us with; just fixing his "work".
ReplyDeleteThe west is great; wide open with diverse geography.
Wow! For some reason I read a bunch of the comments below. I like Bar Rescue, as it entertains my husband and I on Saturday afternoons...laying on the couch, relaxing after a long week. There are certainly a lot of critics out there. I wish you and your comedy club the best. Lord knows we need places to escape life and laugh for a while. After reading the comments, I feel you are always placed on the defensive....which is a shame. I agree with you...come see the show, and if you don't like it....so be it. It sounds like you try very hard to make it an enjoyable experience for your customers. Perhaps my husband and I will stop by some time and see for ourselves. Good luck with the business. [email protected]
ReplyDeleteHi, Sharri, thanks for joining in.
ReplyDeleteThat is definitely the position.
In the reality show biz they call it "jeopardy"; without jeopardy, it's hard to rope the viewer in on an emotional level to any one character/person. In my case, they fabricated a story about how I'm in business but hate my guests, don't pay attention to the needs of the biz and have blow through 180k (all not true).
Let me know if you want to get in and I'll have a couple tix waiting...send an email to [email protected] and reference this invite.
Thanks and see you here some time.
HH.
Rochelle,
ReplyDeletesorry for the delayed response.. keep an eye on the Bar Rescue Updates site for a big event about Bar rescue over the next few days....We might have to get Howard involved on this as well..
Rochelle wasn't on BR, her home was featured on To Catch A Contractor.
ReplyDeleteRambling, If you look I was responding to "Rochelle Kirk" above?
ReplyDeleteAnd? It was a comment in a public place that demonstrated that you did not bother to read the information she had already provided or you would have correctly asked her to post her TCAC contract rather than a BR contract. For that matter, if you were truly interested in the facts of her story, clicking on her name would have given you a whole list of info she has already provided. Don't like public commentary, don't reply in a public place. Want to reply in a public place, then put on your big boy pants and deal with the responses.
ReplyDeleteRambling, my apologies, I was responding to her within the context of the BR review context. I wasn't aware that she had been on a different show.
ReplyDeleteRochelle,
ReplyDeleteTold You we got news..
http://backsportspage.com/index.php/sports/item/real-sports-talk-radio-rescue-edition-2
Howard.. Reached out to you about tonight .. we are doing a radio show about bar rescue.. reach out so we could plug your Club and also help us out in the process
ReplyDeletesorry, I never saw this; I'm up for anything.
ReplyDeleteSorry, Randy, I didn't see this. Hope it went well and if you need me in the future, hit me up on my fb page for faster response: https://www.facebook.com/HHlive
ReplyDeleteThey have a responsibility not to screw up people's real lives.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely this season Bar Rescue has become a joke. A funny, watchable joke though. I really enjoyed seasons 1 and 2 as a pretty decent knockoff of Ramsay but for bars. Season 3 and beyond are stretching it big time.
ReplyDeleteAlways while watching I knew some parts were clearly fake - the Recon with Jon in the truck is and was clearly bogus and the patron interviews I always believed to be PAs or plants, considering they just parrot back what Jon said in the reveal. But it took the trifecta of your club, Sand Dollar (with the hitting on Jon's wife) and Cashmere (Mr. All-in), shown in that order, to make the whole thing completely unbelievable. That led me to this site which after reading pretty much all the updates, makes me think the show is at least 70% fake.
I would totally watch a show about struggling bars and the business behind bringing them back without the staged drama, and I think lots of other people would too. Hotel Impossible isn't quite as bad but has also steered heavily into the family drama scene. I can still watch Kitchen Nightmares and Hotel Hell but Hell's Kitchen is migraine inducing. TLC and Discovery used to be watchable,. now it's all the same crap you find everywhere.
If I ever find myself anywhere near Scottsdale I'll check your place out. Thanks for taking the time to update us about what's going on.
"I would totally watch a show about struggling bars and the business behind bringing them back without the staged drama, and I think lots of other people would too."
ReplyDeleteHear hear! I totally agree.
I hate fakery with a passion. I haven't watched a single Bar Rescue episode since this one. Same with Amazing Race: I noticed that, no matter how badly a team fucks up and how much catastrophically late they are, by the end they always, inevitably, catch up. "THIS IS BULLSHIT!", said I, and haven't watched the show ever since. In fact, I have not watched any reality TV crap.
Congrats for your fantastic username. Well done.
maybe the business just sucks from the ground up. the owner seems like he just doesnt know to run COMEDY or a CLUB.
ReplyDeleteRod Munch? Alright.
ReplyDeleteDon't you think its about time a normal brain starts to ask real questions about what you saw on tv? maybe question your stern belief of jon taffer as to the authenticity and integrity of his show?
We're still in business having survived the hack job.
I can't believe the level of dopes I've met through this show. Breathe, Munch, Breathe! Get some oxygen in there with your thc and alcohol; it makes both of those things better. Get out...live...and if your living happens to bring into Scottsdale, come by and I'll show belief by belief how your brain has been led astray by a tv man.
HH.
that's clever where you people are from, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteI don't normally recommend suicide for people, but in your case, there's a huge upside!
Guess it is true about comics hiding a dark side. Kaufman, Carlin Even the unfunny, untalented ones, such as yourself.
They are no longer The Laugh Factory. Lame club.
ReplyDeleteJane, we never were; it was just to film it to get over on all the dopes that watch this show. You obviously haven't been here to know how the club is, but trust me, if anyone thinks its "lame", they're (you) don't leave much to be desired. By the majority of accounts, its' a great club...highly regarded with guests and comedians. However, not very highly rated with females with more than one cat. Where do you stand in this? I'm saying 3 and a stray that hangs around outside.
ReplyDeleteYeah, even for me. Stop by, Rod. Balls in your court. I've been here and will be here any time in the future. I'll have a beer and a couple tix waiting and you can put your dopey beliefs to the test. And, I'll make you this promise, if you're not satisfied after a face to face, scene by scene tour of the club AND you don't change your mind about the beliefs you picked up via tv, I'll kill myself. I'll even let you choose the method. deal?
ReplyDeleteJacob, sorry, but I thought I responded to this before.
ReplyDeleteThe LF things was purely TV...and a smattering of them just not understanding how a comedy club and comedians book. It's very simple: the amount of seats we can sell determines the level of headliners we can get in, as well as, how much we can pay to franchise fee. The deal was ridiculous once it came down (totally untenable), plus, people who don't follow comedy see the laugh factory name and expect dane cook, tim allen, etc...big names in comedy. We just don't have the capacity to pay those guys, ie. generate enough ticket sales. We had a less capability once Taffer showed up and removed 60 seats.
Trust me, I was a huge fan of this show, however, being in the business I didn't get so emotionally involved as many viewers do. Anyone with a reasonable level of common sense and experience in the bar industry realizes how trumpt up a lot of these episodes are. Much of the episode is fraudulent and both BR and taffer understand that. Trust me, he'll never come back and do a retrospective at this club; he knows the reality of what he did from the make over to the hit-job on me. I wouldn't be surprised if he offs himself at some point. between the drinking the hitjobs, even the money won't be enough to find happiness.
no. such a tease. Fag like you no doubt would choose a ODing on his anti-depressants.
ReplyDeletenext time at your psychiatrist, ask him to either DOULE your anti-depressant, or cut it in half.
Either way, it will be an improvement!
The place was screwed up already and going to close within a few months. At least John came in and help fix the place up and kept it open to generate tax dollars to pay the Phoenix Justice asshole
ReplyDeleteThe invite is here when you find the stones to challenge your TV reality...and run your mouth in person.
ReplyDeletewe can just cut to the chase and have the broom handle shoved up your ass..... you people are into that sorta thing, right?
ReplyDeleteTRYING to use comedy to hide all your failings in life.... it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.
End your pain, Howie. You know what to do. You know.....
no comedy. just an invite for you to come in here and run your mouth.
ReplyDelete"no comedy"..... the most honest thing you've said!!!
ReplyDeleteand are you a drunk or dry drunk now?
ya know what, Howie... I WILL shove that broom handle up your ass!
ReplyDeleteand you don't deserve it, but youre going to get a reach-around, too. there will be no love behind it, but you'll get it.
maybe even a kiss goodbye at the end. but only if you're POLITE during it!! ONLY IF YOU'RE POLITE!!
I'll be very polite; just show up.
ReplyDeleteyou do know I've already been to that mess you call a club, right?
ReplyDeletecome in. introduce yourself. and run your mouth.
ReplyDeleteI don't care what order you do them in; just do them...or just do the third.
Thats all anyone reading this wants you to do.
Have the courage of your convictions.
so in other words, it's what YOU want done......
ReplyDeletejon taffer is a GOD!!! because you chose to piss away everything he brought to you just shows what a moron you really are.
maybe if the owner of Piratz Tavern has her husband deported, the two of you could team up... you'd make a cute couple!!! :D
come in. run your mouth.
ReplyDeleteright after I plug up the toilets in Baltimore. PT's so full of shit though, they might not notice anything.
ReplyDeleteyou should watch the BR afterbuzz show on your 'club'.... they have you pegged pretty well. Failure in so many things in life. 'Inadequate Personality Disorder' for sure.
Step 1: come in.
ReplyDeleteStep 2: run your mouth.
Doing step 1 without step 2 gets you a fine time here in the club.
Doing step 2 gets me a fine time.
The dimwits on the after buzz are just like you; you watched a highly scripted/planned show and think you know something. They're part of the machine selling you idiots the belief that if only given the chance, a loser like you could do this. You couldn't. You're wrestling fan, duck dynasty fan, fireworks fan & comic con fan all tied into one. They had a great story; the real story but they wouldn't trust you with that; they had to do what they did.
I'm doing what I want, each day, by choice; you're just being a loser...mad at me doing what I want.
Start planing your life; living by action.
My life has been and continues to be a very good one; you wouldn't know that from the show because they didn't want to tell that story. That wouldn't hook a loser like you. But the idea of "hey fans, look, this guy is even a bigger loser than you and look at the opportunity he's squandering!"...now that hooks you! That empowers you.
Here's the truth of things: I'm a disabled veteran of the marine corps (desert storm -jacked up back/surgery); a college graduate w/a degree in Bilingual Secondary Ed (thats a highschool for dipshits like you); a traveler who lived and started a business in mexico city over 12 years ago that continues to be successful (www.sinkniche.com) and run by me; the owner of great comedy club. I'm also divorced (true from the show), but far from failed in comedy.
You watched a show to make people like you feel better about yourself and your reactive life. And it worked. But reality is reality. You know your stand; you know your daily life; your relationships; your failures and wins...you can't be hateful or tough enough to me to blurr the truth your own reality. That's yours. Congratulations, I'm certain you've earned it.
Now just to clarify:
Step 1: come in.
Step 2: run your mouth.
Doing step 1 without step 2 gets you a fine time here in the club.
Doing step 2 gets me a fine time.
seem to have hit a nerve.
ReplyDeletebut not the one YOU want! ;-)
suicide, Howie. it was good enough for Robin! ;-)
just remember, Taffer embarrassed you on TV, and every time it's re-aired, another little bit of yourself will die. and there wasn't much to begin with.
ReplyDeletemaybe take some advice from Robin Williams.... you know what to do. You know. ;O)
When you say this "Why be shocked at what I think of afterbuzz. They're just as dopey as anyone who watches the show, assumes a level of understanding, and then goes and attacks those people or speaks about it like they know something real. Its silly.", I agree about your assessment of AfterBuzz TV (at least for the Bar Rescue recap).
ReplyDeleteAs I said elsewhere on this website, the hosts love him over there and Jon can do no wrong. They indeed believe everything they see on the show as real, which I find very surprising given the fact that all of them (except for one) work in the television or movie industry. On a few occasions, it was very funny to see them praise Jon to no end when the bar actually closed down between the taping and when it was shown on Spike TV (because of Jon's involvement). I even raised the issue that before they tape the recap, they should search the status of the bar before they make a fool of themselves (i.e., praising Jon when the bar failed). The lead host (Maria's boyfriend, Kevin) basically brushed it off saying that it's not in their mandate to provide updates (or something in that line). I even provided a link to this website to help them get informed, which I don't think they ever used for their recaps.
If the club was really and truly great, you wouldn't have needed to contact the show to begin with. This trend of people voluntarily signing up to participate in reality tv, then feeling slighted after the fact is baffling. In this day and age, it's safe to assume the average viewer is aware of the "evils" of reality editing, so the old "I was edited this way" defense doesn't hold water. Your business problems and shortcomings were entirely your own long before the show. Your success, or failure, was entirely your own...long before the show. Furthermore, why entrust your business and brand to someone without doing due diligence- had you never heard of Jon Taffer or seen him lambaste previous owners on the show prior to your own involvement? Also, why sign a contract after reviewing it and realizing it might not be a great for for you, your business, and brand? It just doesn't make sense.
ReplyDeleteall i can say is wow, i read much of this crap and its funny how much in denial this howard guy lives in. according to his posts on here, he is exactly how the show portrays him. maybe one day he will look in the mirror and figure that out. a little tip for your "great customer service." you should never attempt to be-little any current or future customer, specially on a public web page that everyone has access to just by googling your company. it makes you and your company look bad. personally, just as i am sure many other arizona locals will do. choose to not go into your business just from reading this. i was just looking up your place of business to plan a weekend date, found this, and now moving on. good luck.
ReplyDeletealso, please tell me you wore those glasses just for the show. because you look like one of the clowns you talk crap about on this forum.
ReplyDeletecarman12, we're going to miss not ever knowing you; you seem like a genuine person who uses the full spectrum of their brain to distinguish between your life, the things you see on tv, and some level of common sense. Anyone who would read or see something without experiencing it is a fool. The evidence is great as to how good this club is; the kind of person I am; and the hatchet job done by the show. Anyone who can't see humor in this board is a moron. We refuse service to morons. If you decide to be other than a moron someday, let me know and I'll have two tickets waiting and beers waiting. Until then, you've just added to our growth by letting our locals know that one more moron won't be here to f-up their evening. ;-)
ReplyDeleteHH.
great analysis. yes, that's the end-game. of course everyone knows what can happen. the biz is and continues to be exactly what I've made it (along with my staff and investors). you were sold a story. a story of debt and ineptitude. i would think that even the most staunch br fan would begin to wonder what was and is true. the reality speaks for itself. you and the others defending the show (and attacking the people on the show) speaks to your reality and your ability to reason, or not.
ReplyDeleteThe level of ignorance (not referring to you in this case) on the part of many of the viewers has far surpassed the hit-job done via the episode. Stop in sometime if you're in town, stache; i'll give you a tour and and we'll have a beer. I promise you this, the day jon taffer puts a bullet in his own head, he's going to lament what he did here. You can't perpetrate the level of fraud as he did here and not have it weigh on you. My conscience is clear and I've continued to build a great biz before and after the show...thats the reality..the truth...supported by evidence...not editing.
HH.
lol, my point exactly. my iq is 133. what is yours? you repeatedly insult potential customer base. i doubt it is great enough to represent a higher intelligence, so how do you get into your investors business?
ReplyDeleteis your name a pseudonym? because its an insult to the real howard hughes
ReplyDeletecarman12, your common sense suffers your intellect. you came on a message board and represented yourself as a tv viewing dope. you didn't engage in conversation; you didn't read the previous posts (or else your superior intellect would have kept you from posting in the first place); you're a loser (perhaps a smart one), who got wrapped up in a show, probably got a little drunk/stoned, and wanted to vent. Nothing more silly, and stupid, than you watching the show yesterday, then getting on here to give someone who gives not one tiny shit about you (me), their opinion.
ReplyDeleteYou're the worst kind of viewer and consumer. You don't allow for objective reasoning. For people that come on here or anywhere else and engage with a minimal level of interest and scepticism in what they saw on tv, with a sincere desire to know about the biz, how we're doing, what the reality is between what they saw and what is, mycommunication is respectful and appreciated. You're a ridiculous person. My guests wouldn't want you here and if you had the nerve to come in and represent yourself the same way, I'd run you out personally, to the applause of everyone in attendance. I'm not here to appease you and your belief about customer service, etc. stay a hidden, dopey, loud mouth tv weirdo...or take my offer to come in, have a couple beers and see the reality for yourself. Other than that, not one person give a rip about you. You're going back to your life, which isn't quite interesting enough to keep you from spouting off here; and i'm going back to my club...by all accounts, a very good comedy club. Always remember this: I went on the show because I believed, like you and other dopes, that the product was worth the experience. You came on here because you bought the dream that the show sells: that if only given the opportunity (especially with your big, stupid brain), you could do this better. You can't; i promise you taht...the show sold you a bill of good that your 133 intellect couldn't sort through; lots of smart, dumb people out there...go find them and be of them. you guys can sit in a group, play your fantasy games, and interact with people over the web lamenting your lost opportunities.
Given all this, if you want come in, have a beer and take a tour...and put your dopey belief to the test, I'l be here waiting. You're brain hopes you'll do it; you've got a 133 iq to protect and your free will is making it look more like an 84. Let your brain (reason) win next time ;-)
wow, nobody cares eh? seems like you do. nice book you wrote there. just to make you feel better i watched the show after i read your nonsense replies.
ReplyDeletecarman, why don't you be the first to run your mouth on here AND come in and have that beer?
ReplyDeleteWe'll sit down, have a conversation as high up on your intellect scale I can get (you'll have to come down a bit), and then lets see where our minds end up. Let's see if one of us comes to greater understanding of ourselves, the show, and the reality.
you could be right; it could be me.
I'm open to finding that out.
Get out from behind your keyboard; leave tv land behind and come in here. you live here after all. then you can come back to this forum and report your findings. Let me know.
"my iq is 133. what is yours?"
ReplyDeleteDo you have any idea just how utterly pathetic you sound? Absolutely nobody reading your comments will believe that you have an IQ higher than 90, but that doesn't mean you can't at least try to behave like a person with a bit of dignity.
To the rude people stop trying to get arise out of the owner of this establishment and to the owner please try to ignore them. Good luck with the business.
ReplyDeleteI really like when people want to know the actual happenings...and most do. Most people know they're watching something that both the show and the bar are trumping up to a great degree (not necessarily in cahoots, but both are working for the best result: the show for drama; the bar for a great upgrade).
ReplyDeleteBut for the few that don't, it is in my nature to enjoy the back and forth; to bring out and show their thinking, their views. Their reality.
The people who come here or to the club, openly, looking for the truth, they get it in a respectable, responsible manner; we've had lots of substantive convos on here. The dopes who's brains don't allow them to objectively reason, well, I enjoy entertaining those convos too.
Someday, i'd love to meet anyone from this thread who comes into the club...friend or foe...have a beer, take a tour, and see what surfaces.
Here's the reality: we're still in biz; i'm still the majority owner; my investors still back me; the guests overwhelmingly have a great time here; and comedians love coming here.
Even the dopiest of tv viewer would have start questioning their beliefs of the show.
Thansk for the good luck; hope you can make it in some time.
HH.
I can imagine that the truth was a lot different than what we saw, but I don't think you came across so bad, just not all that business savvy. I also thought that a large green room that costs so many seats was counter-productive. Entertainment or not, I feel that the production company should be the ones to ensure 100% code compliance.
ReplyDeleteJust saw the bar show on cable. I know its highly scripted for a dramatic effect, but did you really make a case that comedy clubs arent about laughter but also sadness, crying, etc? My jaw dropped when i heard this coming out of a comedy managers mouth.
ReplyDeleteI dont know the details behind your business but the guy that keeps you employed as a manager is out of his mind.
Mars, I'm the majority owner. I have all the confidence of the rest of the group, i can assure you.
ReplyDeleteAgain, it doesn't take but a bit of reason, to realize youre watching a scripted show, so good job on picking up that things may not be represented in a responsible way.
The short of it, as I've answered several times in this thread, is that comedy is about a range of emotions, laughter being the easiest and most obvious. When a guest is taken through a range of emotions punctuated with laughter, its a much better experience.
It also takes much more talented comedians than ones that just go up, do something dopey to elicit laughter.
Taffer was incredibly fraudulent in the work and the story line the developed. Thanks for watching the show and you should stop in sometime if you're in town; i'll have tix and a beer waiting along with a personal tour so you can put the shows assertions to the test...if you do, you'd be the first fan to accept. BR fans hate thinking they could be being duped.
HH.